1
00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:09,110
welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

2
00:00:28,260 --> 00:00:24,720
hello and welcome to the skeptics are an

3
00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:28,270
episode number 385 for the sixth of

4
00:00:34,010 --> 00:00:30,850
March 2016 Richard Saunders here with

5
00:00:36,540 --> 00:00:34,020
you from Sydney Australia which I think

6
00:00:38,670 --> 00:00:36,550
Sydney has moved a little closer to the

7
00:00:41,970 --> 00:00:38,680
Sun recently folks this is the endless

8
00:00:45,090 --> 00:00:41,980
summer that won't end hence the endless

9
00:00:48,330 --> 00:00:45,100
summer still hot still humid muggy

10
00:00:50,100 --> 00:00:48,340
nights mmm and those people in the

11
00:00:52,439 --> 00:00:50,110
northern hemisphere who promised to send

12
00:00:55,290 --> 00:00:52,449
me their snow and ice well I'm sure it's

13
00:00:59,190 --> 00:00:55,300
on the way in fact it probably melted

14
00:01:01,590 --> 00:00:59,200
before it got here hmm coming up on this

15
00:01:03,930 --> 00:01:01,600
week's show they're going to kick off

16
00:01:06,139 --> 00:01:03,940
with Heidi Robertson welcome return of

17
00:01:09,990 --> 00:01:06,149
Heidi Robertson who's had a bit of a a

18
00:01:12,060 --> 00:01:10,000
sabbatical from the skeptics and welcome

19
00:01:16,770 --> 00:01:12,070
back Heidi she's going to be reporting

20
00:01:19,469 --> 00:01:16,780
on chicken pox chicken pox in the raw

21
00:01:22,260 --> 00:01:19,479
skeptic report now of course you may

22
00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:22,270
have heard that a in this country and

23
00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:23,890
probably other countries there have been

24
00:01:31,529 --> 00:01:28,770
chicken pox parties yes yes adults are

25
00:01:34,109 --> 00:01:31,539
putting children in danger of getting

26
00:01:38,930 --> 00:01:34,119
the horrible infectious disease of

27
00:01:43,469 --> 00:01:38,940
chicken pox incredible but true and

28
00:01:46,589 --> 00:01:43,479
Heidi will tell you such things which I

29
00:01:49,350 --> 00:01:46,599
know all too well is that in later life

30
00:01:50,910 --> 00:01:49,360
people who had have had chicken pox can

31
00:01:54,210 --> 00:01:50,920
look forward to the possibility of

32
00:01:57,510 --> 00:01:54,220
shingles I being one of them and our

33
00:02:00,630 --> 00:01:57,520
good friend Steve Roberts who are runs

34
00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:00,640
dr. Bob's trivia quiz and I'm sure you

35
00:02:05,490 --> 00:02:03,250
won't mind me saying not so long ago had

36
00:02:08,820 --> 00:02:05,500
a nasty attack of shingles because he

37
00:02:11,729 --> 00:02:08,830
had chicken pox in early life sort of

38
00:02:16,070 --> 00:02:11,739
those parents who take their children to

39
00:02:23,330 --> 00:02:20,250
think again and you should listen to

40
00:02:27,870 --> 00:02:23,340
Heidi Robertson's report all about

41
00:02:32,039 --> 00:02:27,880
chicken pox as part of her continuing

42
00:02:34,020 --> 00:02:32,049
series on infectious diseases following

43
00:02:34,420 --> 00:02:34,030
that it's the good thinking Society

44
00:02:36,039 --> 00:02:34,430
another

45
00:02:37,959 --> 00:02:36,049
report from the good thinking society in

46
00:02:40,479 --> 00:02:37,969
the UK they're going to investigate

47
00:02:44,410 --> 00:02:40,489
osteopathy they ring up an osteopath to

48
00:02:46,170 --> 00:02:44,420
see if they will also like the

49
00:02:49,209 --> 00:02:46,180
chiropractor's the week before treat

50
00:02:51,789 --> 00:02:49,219
colic and then after that it's a report

51
00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:51,799
on a noted anti-vaccination campaigner

52
00:02:57,490 --> 00:02:53,810
Chris Savage from Queensland who has

53
00:03:00,300 --> 00:02:57,500
recently left Bali and it seems he was

54
00:03:05,979 --> 00:03:00,310
setting up operations there to treat

55
00:03:09,940 --> 00:03:05,989
autism treat autism a bizarre story as

56
00:03:13,030 --> 00:03:09,950
reported at the Australian skeptics

57
00:03:15,429 --> 00:03:13,040
website then to round off the show a

58
00:03:17,830 --> 00:03:15,439
little bit of lightheartedness skeptics

59
00:03:19,780 --> 00:03:17,840
in the pub here in Sydney we ask the big

60
00:03:23,559 --> 00:03:19,790
question what does skeptics think of

61
00:03:25,690 --> 00:03:23,569
chemical free food chemical free food

62
00:03:28,390 --> 00:03:25,700
something a bit more lighthearted to

63
00:03:30,780 --> 00:03:28,400
round off the skeptic zone now thank you

64
00:03:33,670 --> 00:03:30,790
to those people who wrote to me and

65
00:03:37,809 --> 00:03:33,680
contacted me about last week's skeptic

66
00:03:40,300 --> 00:03:37,819
zone in my my report my item entitled

67
00:03:42,729 --> 00:03:40,310
holes in the plot about the way the mind

68
00:03:44,469 --> 00:03:42,739
works and how believers perceive the

69
00:03:46,809 --> 00:03:44,479
world thank you it was so nice of you

70
00:03:51,369 --> 00:03:46,819
people to write to me and let me know

71
00:03:53,979 --> 00:03:51,379
that you enjoyed my my report and you

72
00:03:55,869 --> 00:03:53,989
found it very useful and insightful that

73
00:03:57,399 --> 00:03:55,879
makes her that makes it all worthwhile

74
00:03:59,439 --> 00:03:57,409
that's that's really great thank you so

75
00:04:02,110 --> 00:03:59,449
much now right at the end of the show

76
00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:02,120
when I do my wrap-up i will give Sydney

77
00:04:06,939 --> 00:04:04,970
people soon information about an

78
00:04:09,729 --> 00:04:06,949
upcoming Australian skeptics dinner

79
00:04:11,409 --> 00:04:09,739
meeting always worth attending the

80
00:04:14,860 --> 00:04:11,419
Australian skeptics dinner meetings here

81
00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:14,870
in Sydney but now it's time for me to

82
00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:21,530
run downstairs toast a bagel yeah get

83
00:04:30,100 --> 00:04:25,130
some nice English cheddar cheese melted

84
00:04:33,159 --> 00:04:30,110
on top maybe a little bit of avocado on

85
00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:33,169
top of that yeah sounds pretty good

86
00:04:56,630 --> 00:04:34,970
while I'm doing that I hope you enjoy

87
00:05:10,980 --> 00:05:00,600
it's the raw skeptic report with Heidi

88
00:05:12,420 --> 00:05:10,990
Robertson hello everyone this week I am

89
00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:12,430
continuing my series on

90
00:05:17,430 --> 00:05:14,890
vaccine-preventable diseases with

91
00:05:21,870 --> 00:05:17,440
varicella commonly known as chicken pox

92
00:05:24,420 --> 00:05:21,880
i was born in 1973 i remember getting

93
00:05:27,660 --> 00:05:24,430
chicken pox at around the age of six i

94
00:05:30,300 --> 00:05:27,670
recall being thoroughly miserable mum

95
00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:30,310
trying calamine lotion on my spots and

96
00:05:34,770 --> 00:05:32,650
putting me in cool baths neither of

97
00:05:38,370 --> 00:05:34,780
which relief for the intense itching for

98
00:05:41,340 --> 00:05:38,380
too long I still bear a few scars over

99
00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:41,350
30 years later I'm sure many listeners

100
00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:44,890
would have similar memories so what's

101
00:05:50,550 --> 00:05:47,050
the big deal with chickenpox is a

102
00:05:52,140 --> 00:05:50,560
vaccine for it really necessary let's

103
00:05:55,050 --> 00:05:52,150
look at some facts and why the

104
00:05:59,250 --> 00:05:55,060
anti-vaccination crowd are so very wrong

105
00:06:02,010 --> 00:05:59,260
once again the following are excerpts

106
00:06:04,590 --> 00:06:02,020
from an article appearing in kids spot

107
00:06:06,750 --> 00:06:04,600
in January of this year written by

108
00:06:09,750 --> 00:06:06,760
Northern Rivers vaccination supporters

109
00:06:12,870 --> 00:06:09,760
administrator dr. Rachel heap associate

110
00:06:17,250 --> 00:06:12,880
professor Stephen Lambert and Jenny bait

111
00:06:19,590 --> 00:06:17,260
from light for Riley quote the

112
00:06:21,540 --> 00:06:19,600
incubation period the time it takes

113
00:06:25,380 --> 00:06:21,550
between catching it and symptoms

114
00:06:27,630 --> 00:06:25,390
starting for chickenpox is 10 to 21 days

115
00:06:29,790 --> 00:06:27,640
and it spreads to others through

116
00:06:32,030 --> 00:06:29,800
coughing sneezing or coming into contact

117
00:06:34,470 --> 00:06:32,040
with the blister fluid in the spots

118
00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:34,480
someone with chickenpox is contagious

119
00:06:40,350 --> 00:06:37,210
from around 48 hours before the first

120
00:06:42,420 --> 00:06:40,360
spots appear until every spot is crusted

121
00:06:44,570 --> 00:06:42,430
over in other words you can be

122
00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:44,580
contagious before you know you are sick

123
00:06:50,420 --> 00:06:48,130
in general and unvaccinated person with

124
00:06:54,140 --> 00:06:50,430
a standard case of chickenpox we

125
00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:54,150
get between 200 to 500 spots which can

126
00:07:00,350 --> 00:06:57,210
appear in the mouth nose vagina and

127
00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:00,360
rectum as well as on the skin and these

128
00:07:05,450 --> 00:07:02,810
spots often lead to permanent scars

129
00:07:07,490 --> 00:07:05,460
around one percent of cases of

130
00:07:11,150 --> 00:07:07,500
chickenpox will be serious and have

131
00:07:13,490 --> 00:07:11,160
complications like one infected spots

132
00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:13,500
leading to nasty complications like

133
00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:17,730
cellulitis sepsis kidney failure scarlet

134
00:07:24,010 --> 00:07:20,250
fever rheumatic heart disease and death

135
00:07:27,020 --> 00:07:24,020
to pneumonia and respiratory failure

136
00:07:29,810 --> 00:07:27,030
three neurological injury including

137
00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:29,820
ataxia losing control of muscles and

138
00:07:35,780 --> 00:07:33,090
coordination meningitis encephalitis and

139
00:07:37,790 --> 00:07:35,790
transverse myelitis infection and

140
00:07:40,060 --> 00:07:37,800
inflammation of various parts of the

141
00:07:44,300 --> 00:07:40,070
central nervous system and spinal cord

142
00:07:46,420 --> 00:07:44,310
for thrombocytopenia a low platelet

143
00:07:50,270 --> 00:07:46,430
count leading to bleeding and bruising

144
00:07:53,300 --> 00:07:50,280
five congenital varicella if a pregnant

145
00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:53,310
woman gets chicken pox one in 50 babies

146
00:07:59,420 --> 00:07:56,370
will be affected this includes skin and

147
00:08:03,140 --> 00:07:59,430
limb deformities I problems and brain

148
00:08:05,750 --> 00:08:03,150
injury six the development of shingles

149
00:08:08,450 --> 00:08:05,760
this occurs later on in life as a result

150
00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:08,460
of the virus reactivating but is the

151
00:08:14,450 --> 00:08:10,890
result of the same infection that causes

152
00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:14,460
chickenpox before the chicken pox

153
00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:17,010
vaccination program in Australia there

154
00:08:24,350 --> 00:08:19,970
were about 240,000 cases each year

155
00:08:26,210 --> 00:08:24,360
leading to 1500 needing hospital and an

156
00:08:28,790 --> 00:08:26,220
average of seven to eight deaths each

157
00:08:31,130 --> 00:08:28,800
year the highest rates of

158
00:08:33,290 --> 00:08:31,140
hospitalization occurred in children

159
00:08:35,570 --> 00:08:33,300
under five years of age because of how

160
00:08:38,690 --> 00:08:35,580
widespread the disease was in that age

161
00:08:40,910 --> 00:08:38,700
group but infection is often more severe

162
00:08:45,950 --> 00:08:40,920
and complicated in adolescents and

163
00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:45,960
adults end quote this from sciencedaily

164
00:08:50,420 --> 00:08:48,930
com quote in a national study of

165
00:08:52,190 --> 00:08:50,430
chickenpox admissions at for

166
00:08:54,530 --> 00:08:52,200
participating Australian children's

167
00:08:56,300 --> 00:08:54,540
hospitals researchers found the number

168
00:08:59,090 --> 00:08:56,310
of children hospitalized with chickenpox

169
00:09:02,690 --> 00:08:59,100
or shingles had dropped by sixty-eight

170
00:09:04,249 --> 00:09:02,700
percent since 2006 the results of the

171
00:09:05,900 --> 00:09:04,259
study now published on

172
00:09:08,509 --> 00:09:05,910
in the pediatric infectious-disease

173
00:09:10,309 --> 00:09:08,519
Journal show that there were no deaths

174
00:09:13,579 --> 00:09:10,319
identified in the participating

175
00:09:16,129 --> 00:09:13,589
hospitals in Australia during 2007 to

176
00:09:18,939 --> 00:09:16,139
2010 following the widespread

177
00:09:22,069 --> 00:09:18,949
introduction of the varicella vaccine

178
00:09:23,989 --> 00:09:22,079
the study also shows that of children

179
00:09:26,719 --> 00:09:23,999
needing hospitalization for severe

180
00:09:30,379 --> 00:09:26,729
chickenpox eighty percent had not been

181
00:09:33,799 --> 00:09:30,389
immunized end quote back to the kids

182
00:09:36,019 --> 00:09:33,809
spot article quote before a vaccine was

183
00:09:38,059 --> 00:09:36,029
available pretty much everyone would get

184
00:09:40,489 --> 00:09:38,069
chickenpox at some stage in their lives

185
00:09:42,529 --> 00:09:40,499
it was well known that the disease is

186
00:09:44,569 --> 00:09:42,539
more often dangerous for adults to get

187
00:09:46,219 --> 00:09:44,579
and so some parents would want their

188
00:09:48,139 --> 00:09:46,229
children to catch it while they were

189
00:09:50,509 --> 00:09:48,149
young in the hope that they would get a

190
00:09:53,029 --> 00:09:50,519
milder case then if they caught it as an

191
00:09:55,219 --> 00:09:53,039
adult it was for this reason that some

192
00:09:57,169 --> 00:09:55,229
parents would organise to catch up with

193
00:09:59,619 --> 00:09:57,179
infected friends and family to

194
00:10:03,199 --> 00:09:59,629
deliberately expose their children

195
00:10:05,359 --> 00:10:03,209
however as we now have a safe and

196
00:10:07,729 --> 00:10:05,369
effective vaccine for chicken pox and

197
00:10:10,519 --> 00:10:07,739
given the reduction in disease around

198
00:10:13,249 --> 00:10:10,529
Australia there is absolutely no reason

199
00:10:17,779 --> 00:10:13,259
to deliberately expose children to this

200
00:10:20,569 --> 00:10:17,789
disease the vaccine is alive attenuated

201
00:10:22,909 --> 00:10:20,579
vaccine meaning that it contains the

202
00:10:25,279 --> 00:10:22,919
chickenpox virus that's been weakened to

203
00:10:27,710 --> 00:10:25,289
such an extent that whilst it still

204
00:10:31,159 --> 00:10:27,720
causes an immune response it doesn't

205
00:10:33,199 --> 00:10:31,169
cause a typical chickenpox illness in

206
00:10:36,139 --> 00:10:33,209
about fifteen percent of chickenpox

207
00:10:38,779 --> 00:10:36,149
vaccines given a very mild form of

208
00:10:41,659 --> 00:10:38,789
chickenpox can occur which usually shows

209
00:10:45,499 --> 00:10:41,669
as a few minor spots just around the

210
00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:45,509
injection site vaccine associated

211
00:10:50,599 --> 00:10:47,730
chickenpox cannot be spread by coughing

212
00:10:53,419 --> 00:10:50,609
and sneezing but a very weak version of

213
00:10:56,809 --> 00:10:53,429
the virus can be found in fluid in the

214
00:10:59,389 --> 00:10:56,819
spots that form in rare cases there is a

215
00:11:01,729 --> 00:10:59,399
theoretical risk that this very weak

216
00:11:03,889 --> 00:11:01,739
form of the chickenpox could be spread

217
00:11:06,859 --> 00:11:03,899
to another person if they are in close

218
00:11:09,349 --> 00:11:06,869
contact with the blister fluid this can

219
00:11:11,539 --> 00:11:09,359
be completely prevented by covering any

220
00:11:14,929 --> 00:11:11,549
blisters with clothing or addressing and

221
00:11:17,510 --> 00:11:14,939
following simple hygiene rules the

222
00:11:19,910 --> 00:11:17,520
spread of vaccine associated chickenpox

223
00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:19,920
rare that according to the US Centers

224
00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:21,930
for Disease Control and Prevention the

225
00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:26,250
CDC out of around 55 million doses of

226
00:11:32,150 --> 00:11:29,370
vaccines given they have only been about

227
00:11:36,100 --> 00:11:32,160
five cases of people getting infected

228
00:11:39,020 --> 00:11:36,110
from contact with a vaccinated person

229
00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:39,030
this risk is so low that current

230
00:11:44,510 --> 00:11:41,970
recommendations from the CDC and in the

231
00:11:46,700 --> 00:11:44,520
Australian immunization handbook are for

232
00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:46,710
household contacts of people with

233
00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:49,170
immunosuppression to be fully vaccinated

234
00:11:54,110 --> 00:11:52,530
to protect the vulnerable because the

235
00:11:56,630 --> 00:11:54,120
vaccine associated virus is

236
00:11:58,430 --> 00:11:56,640
significantly weakened although there is

237
00:12:00,920 --> 00:11:58,440
a small risk that it could lie dormant

238
00:12:03,580 --> 00:12:00,930
and become reactivated as shingles later

239
00:12:06,260 --> 00:12:03,590
in life this risk is much reduced

240
00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:06,270
compared to the risk of shingles after

241
00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:09,930
natural disease no vaccine is an

242
00:12:14,270 --> 00:12:12,090
absolute force field and there will

243
00:12:17,030 --> 00:12:14,280
always be cases in which vaccinated

244
00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:17,040
people can get the disease this can be

245
00:12:20,690 --> 00:12:18,570
because their immune system didn't

246
00:12:23,230 --> 00:12:20,700
respond to the vaccine or because a

247
00:12:25,730 --> 00:12:23,240
vaccine gave them only partial immunity

248
00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:25,740
however if vaccinated people get the

249
00:12:31,190 --> 00:12:28,050
disease it's usually a less severe

250
00:12:34,450 --> 00:12:31,200
illness fewer lesions shorter illness

251
00:12:36,950 --> 00:12:34,460
less contagious and recovery is quicker

252
00:12:39,170 --> 00:12:36,960
chickenpox infection in someone who has

253
00:12:43,100 --> 00:12:39,180
been vaccinated is known as breakthrough

254
00:12:44,510 --> 00:12:43,110
disease the chickenpox vaccine is

255
00:12:47,900 --> 00:12:44,520
particularly effective at preventing

256
00:12:49,820 --> 00:12:47,910
severe or complicated disease one dose

257
00:12:51,680 --> 00:12:49,830
of the chickenpox vaccine leads to an

258
00:12:53,570 --> 00:12:51,690
eighty to eighty-five percent reduction

259
00:12:56,990 --> 00:12:53,580
in the incidence of catching the disease

260
00:13:00,800 --> 00:12:57,000
at all and a 95 to ninety-eight percent

261
00:13:02,780 --> 00:13:00,810
reduction in severe disease two doses

262
00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:02,790
given at least four weeks apart

263
00:13:07,550 --> 00:13:05,250
increases the effectiveness of disease

264
00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:07,560
prevention to ninety eight percent and

265
00:13:13,370 --> 00:13:09,930
is one hundred percent effective at

266
00:13:15,980 --> 00:13:13,380
preventing severe disease currently a

267
00:13:18,260 --> 00:13:15,990
single dose of the varicella vaccine is

268
00:13:19,810 --> 00:13:18,270
funded australia-wide for children

269
00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:19,820
through the national immunization

270
00:13:26,900 --> 00:13:22,650
program which is given in combination

271
00:13:30,020 --> 00:13:26,910
with the MMR at 18 months this is the

272
00:13:30,690 --> 00:13:30,030
MMR V vaccine however the Australian

273
00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:30,700
immunization

274
00:13:35,490 --> 00:13:33,250
handbook actually recommends two doses

275
00:13:37,950 --> 00:13:35,500
of the vaccine to protect against

276
00:13:40,410 --> 00:13:37,960
breakthrough disease if you want to take

277
00:13:41,700 --> 00:13:40,420
this up for yourself or your family you

278
00:13:44,070 --> 00:13:41,710
would need to ask your healthcare

279
00:13:46,770 --> 00:13:44,080
provider for the second dose and it

280
00:13:49,020 --> 00:13:46,780
would need to be paid for anyone who

281
00:13:52,910 --> 00:13:49,030
hasn't had the vaccine or the disease as

282
00:13:56,010 --> 00:13:52,920
a child needs two doses for protection

283
00:13:58,440 --> 00:13:56,020
no medication or treatment carries zero

284
00:14:00,300 --> 00:13:58,450
risk but risks associated with the

285
00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:00,310
vaccine are either much milder and

286
00:14:05,820 --> 00:14:02,410
shorter lived then associated with the

287
00:14:07,590 --> 00:14:05,830
disease or far rarer the most common

288
00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:07,600
complications following varicella

289
00:14:12,810 --> 00:14:09,610
vaccination are pain or swelling around

290
00:14:14,910 --> 00:14:12,820
the injection site fever is possible and

291
00:14:17,190 --> 00:14:14,920
can occasionally lead to febrile

292
00:14:19,230 --> 00:14:17,200
convulsions which are very scary for

293
00:14:21,750 --> 00:14:19,240
parents but very rarely lead to any

294
00:14:24,420 --> 00:14:21,760
lasting issues and much more common with

295
00:14:26,670 --> 00:14:24,430
the disease than the vaccine other

296
00:14:29,820 --> 00:14:26,680
complications including serious allergic

297
00:14:32,970 --> 00:14:29,830
reactions occur in less than 0.01

298
00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:32,980
percent that's less than one in 10,000

299
00:14:38,100 --> 00:14:36,130
people getting the vaccine once someone

300
00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:38,110
has had chickenpox the virus remains

301
00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:41,290
dormant in the body and can flare up to

302
00:14:47,310 --> 00:14:43,930
cause shingles I'll be covering shingles

303
00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:47,320
in another report meanwhile the

304
00:14:51,990 --> 00:14:49,690
anti-vaccination crowd are dismissing or

305
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:52,000
denying outright the complications of

306
00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:54,610
chickenpox displaying insensitivity and

307
00:14:59,100 --> 00:14:56,770
outright nastiness to those who have

308
00:15:03,390 --> 00:14:59,110
suffered permanent damage or lost loved

309
00:15:06,330 --> 00:15:03,400
ones to the disease in December 2015 a

310
00:15:08,220 --> 00:15:06,340
mum in Brisbane Holly singleton made

311
00:15:10,050 --> 00:15:08,230
news when she was planning a chicken pox

312
00:15:12,540 --> 00:15:10,060
party and offering to infect other

313
00:15:14,850 --> 00:15:12,550
people's children with the disease she

314
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:14,860
cancelled the party after the media got

315
00:15:21,660 --> 00:15:18,250
hold of the story in a Facebook post she

316
00:15:24,660 --> 00:15:21,670
was quoted as saying truth as i said is

317
00:15:27,420 --> 00:15:24,670
too harsh for most to accept illness

318
00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:27,430
keeps population in control and is meant

319
00:15:32,310 --> 00:15:29,770
to eliminate the weak and build a

320
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:32,320
stronger species i'm not liked for that

321
00:15:36,870 --> 00:15:34,810
belief but it is really how i believe we

322
00:15:40,950 --> 00:15:36,880
should be understanding our kind end

323
00:15:42,990 --> 00:15:40,960
quote chris coca guy who lost his son

324
00:15:45,510 --> 00:15:43,000
michael to chicken pox a

325
00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:45,520
it on a morning television show in 2010

326
00:15:50,130 --> 00:15:47,650
in order to raise awareness of the

327
00:15:51,690 --> 00:15:50,140
little known dangers of the disease he

328
00:15:54,780 --> 00:15:51,700
was subsequently mocked by the

329
00:15:58,140 --> 00:15:54,790
anti-vaccination organization the AVS n

330
00:16:01,740 --> 00:15:58,150
on facebook who insinuated the story was

331
00:16:06,300 --> 00:16:01,750
not true by stating quote it's not April

332
00:16:09,030 --> 00:16:06,310
Fool's Day it's spring and quote Wendell

333
00:16:11,460 --> 00:16:09,040
Idol anti-vaccination activist with no

334
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:11,470
medical qualifications appeared on the

335
00:16:15,810 --> 00:16:13,450
same morning television show on another

336
00:16:17,790 --> 00:16:15,820
occasion openly laughing at a

337
00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:17,800
pediatrician who said that he has

338
00:16:22,950 --> 00:16:19,810
treated kids with chicken pox in

339
00:16:25,170 --> 00:16:22,960
intensive care Lydell zone children

340
00:16:27,750 --> 00:16:25,180
contracted measles chickenpox and

341
00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:27,760
rubella and her daughter whooping cough

342
00:16:34,020 --> 00:16:30,930
when she was four Meryl Dory

343
00:16:37,350 --> 00:16:34,030
ex-president of the Avs n has written

344
00:16:39,990 --> 00:16:37,360
quote chicken pox a disease that has

345
00:16:42,420 --> 00:16:40,000
never been considered deadly the vaccine

346
00:16:44,700 --> 00:16:42,430
was not introduced to prevent deaths but

347
00:16:46,770 --> 00:16:44,710
rather to allow mums to continue working

348
00:16:51,510 --> 00:16:46,780
so the country would not lose out

349
00:16:54,300 --> 00:16:51,520
financially and quote media outlets need

350
00:16:56,490 --> 00:16:54,310
to stop giving these cranks airtime need

351
00:16:58,440 --> 00:16:56,500
to stop framing vaccination as a debate

352
00:17:01,260 --> 00:16:58,450
and need to understand the harm that

353
00:17:04,590 --> 00:17:01,270
false balance has in compromising Public

354
00:17:06,870 --> 00:17:04,600
Health Initiatives let's finish with a

355
00:17:09,210 --> 00:17:06,880
mum that does deserve airtime that

356
00:17:13,199 --> 00:17:09,220
deserves our compassion and our

357
00:17:14,819 --> 00:17:13,209
admiration for sharing her story Renee

358
00:17:17,370 --> 00:17:14,829
is a member of the Northern Rivers

359
00:17:19,559 --> 00:17:17,380
vaccination supporters group and has

360
00:17:22,470 --> 00:17:19,569
shared her story in several forums

361
00:17:25,620 --> 00:17:22,480
online she has kindly allowed me to

362
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:25,630
share her son Jesse's story here which

363
00:17:34,370 --> 00:17:30,810
appeared on the before vaccines blogspot

364
00:17:38,250 --> 00:17:34,380
jesse lee was born on november the 12th

365
00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:38,260
1991 he was a happy funny child who

366
00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:40,690
enjoyed making others laugh and would

367
00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:43,090
say and do funny things for that purpose

368
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:45,370
he had a sense of humor that was

369
00:17:50,610 --> 00:17:48,730
sometimes on the cheeky side Jesse had

370
00:17:53,090 --> 00:17:50,620
just graduated from third grade and was

371
00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:53,100
starting his fourth he was healthy

372
00:17:59,350 --> 00:17:55,730
active charming

373
00:18:01,600 --> 00:17:59,360
he had everything waiting for him Jesse

374
00:18:06,370 --> 00:18:01,610
came home from school on Monday August

375
00:18:09,130 --> 00:18:06,380
the 27th 2001 with a bad headache almost

376
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:09,140
as bad as a migraine ranae remembers he

377
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:12,770
had no fever but he felt horrible he

378
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:15,010
started vomiting heavily that night and

379
00:18:20,890 --> 00:18:17,690
continued through the next day Tuesday

380
00:18:22,810 --> 00:18:20,900
he rested as best he could with his mum

381
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:22,820
watching his fluid intake and keeping

382
00:18:28,510 --> 00:18:26,090
him as comfortable as possible worried

383
00:18:31,510 --> 00:18:28,520
Renee slept in his room for the next few

384
00:18:33,340 --> 00:18:31,520
days watching over him on Wednesday when

385
00:18:35,260 --> 00:18:33,350
things were no better Jesse's parents

386
00:18:38,290 --> 00:18:35,270
took him to the doctor the doctor

387
00:18:40,690 --> 00:18:38,300
prescribed antibiotics later that day

388
00:18:42,730 --> 00:18:40,700
however they noticed Jesse had spots

389
00:18:46,150 --> 00:18:42,740
over his chest and belly signs of

390
00:18:49,210 --> 00:18:46,160
chickenpox and still no fever at this

391
00:18:51,010 --> 00:18:49,220
point Jesse managed to eat a bit worried

392
00:18:53,530 --> 00:18:51,020
Renee kept a constant eye on him and

393
00:18:56,140 --> 00:18:53,540
made sure he was drinking enough jesse

394
00:18:58,630 --> 00:18:56,150
was no better on Thursday except that he

395
00:19:01,600 --> 00:18:58,640
was now dry retching instead of actually

396
00:19:04,210 --> 00:19:01,610
vomiting he had no fever but he was in

397
00:19:06,610 --> 00:19:04,220
bad shape his parents took him to the

398
00:19:08,980 --> 00:19:06,620
doctor again and this time he was sent

399
00:19:11,370 --> 00:19:08,990
immediately to the local hospital the

400
00:19:13,750 --> 00:19:11,380
first of three hospitals he went through

401
00:19:15,940 --> 00:19:13,760
renault describes the situation in that

402
00:19:17,890 --> 00:19:15,950
hospital is hectic the nurses were

403
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:17,900
extremely busy and jesse was getting

404
00:19:23,710 --> 00:19:21,530
very little attention in the night

405
00:19:25,930 --> 00:19:23,720
between thursday and friday breathing

406
00:19:28,660 --> 00:19:25,940
became harder for Jesse he was

407
00:19:31,930 --> 00:19:28,670
struggling for air the hospital gave him

408
00:19:33,670 --> 00:19:31,940
oxygen and x-rayed his chest that's when

409
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:33,680
they discovered that he had a bad case

410
00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:36,650
of pneumonia he was covered in chicken

411
00:19:41,740 --> 00:19:39,410
pox lesions at this point Renee says

412
00:19:45,250 --> 00:19:41,750
they went internally and caused

413
00:19:46,810 --> 00:19:45,260
pneumonia the local hospital concluded

414
00:19:49,300 --> 00:19:46,820
that he needed treatment beyond what

415
00:19:51,910 --> 00:19:49,310
they could give him and at seven-thirty

416
00:19:53,710 --> 00:19:51,920
p.m. sent him to another hospital that

417
00:19:55,420 --> 00:19:53,720
hospital to concluded that they could

418
00:19:57,100 --> 00:19:55,430
not treat Jesse and arrange for him to

419
00:20:00,370 --> 00:19:57,110
be sent to an even more specialized

420
00:20:02,170 --> 00:20:00,380
hospital in Newcastle a specialist

421
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:02,180
respiratory team came from the Newcastle

422
00:20:07,060 --> 00:20:04,610
hospital and put Jesse now receiving

423
00:20:09,410 --> 00:20:07,070
oxygen constantly into an induced coma

424
00:20:12,210 --> 00:20:09,420
for the trip back to Newcastle

425
00:20:14,430 --> 00:20:12,220
before they put him into the coma his

426
00:20:17,700 --> 00:20:14,440
parents got a last chance to talk to him

427
00:20:20,100 --> 00:20:17,710
while he was still conscious they said

428
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:20,110
their goodbyes not knowing whether or

429
00:20:24,900 --> 00:20:22,690
not he would ever wake up not knowing

430
00:20:28,650 --> 00:20:24,910
whether they would ever talk to him

431
00:20:32,870 --> 00:20:28,660
again Jessie asked his dad whether he

432
00:20:36,860 --> 00:20:32,880
was going to die Paul Jesse's dad said

433
00:20:39,930 --> 00:20:36,870
no mate we will see you when you wake up

434
00:20:43,050 --> 00:20:39,940
by Saturday jessie was in a critical

435
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:43,060
condition Renee says they were telling

436
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:45,250
me he was very sick and they were just

437
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:48,090
doing their best to help him fight it

438
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:50,970
all through saturday it was touch and go

439
00:20:55,950 --> 00:20:53,410
jesse was hooked to multiple tubes

440
00:20:57,870 --> 00:20:55,960
receiving multiple medicines his

441
00:21:00,900 --> 00:20:57,880
condition seemed to improve slightly

442
00:21:04,830 --> 00:21:00,910
giving his parents hope it was

443
00:21:07,290 --> 00:21:04,840
short-lived says Rene quote then he

444
00:21:10,290 --> 00:21:07,300
deteriorated and in the end his heart

445
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:10,300
could not take it anymore and failed his

446
00:21:15,690 --> 00:21:13,090
organs just started to shut down he had

447
00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:15,700
chickenpox everywhere on his arms and

448
00:21:21,870 --> 00:21:18,130
legs he had them everywhere he was

449
00:21:24,210 --> 00:21:21,880
covered in them and quote Jessie left

450
00:21:28,830 --> 00:21:24,220
the world just before midnight on

451
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:28,840
Saturday September the first 2001 he was

452
00:21:34,350 --> 00:21:32,050
not yet ten years old the chickenpox

453
00:21:37,230 --> 00:21:34,360
vaccine had come out six months prior to

454
00:21:40,140 --> 00:21:37,240
Jesse's death and mum Renee was not

455
00:21:42,330 --> 00:21:40,150
aware of its existence Jesse and his

456
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:42,340
sister had been vaccinated as per the

457
00:21:47,550 --> 00:21:45,490
schedule for everything else Jessie will

458
00:21:49,590 --> 00:21:47,560
be remembered by all of us at the

459
00:21:54,210 --> 00:21:49,600
northern rivers vaccinations supporters

460
00:21:58,440 --> 00:21:54,220
as the happy smiling cheeky kid in the

461
00:22:00,690 --> 00:21:58,450
photos renee has shared of him this has

462
00:22:03,630 --> 00:22:00,700
been highly Robertson of the Northern

463
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:03,640
Rivers vaccination supporters we can be

464
00:22:12,549 --> 00:22:07,570
found on facebook at our website and rvs

465
00:22:30,610 --> 00:22:12,559
info and on twitter at NR vax that's

466
00:22:33,340 --> 00:22:30,620
ix supporters thank you did you see that

467
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:33,350
UFO sighting that made the news what did

468
00:22:36,999 --> 00:22:34,850
that latest study about alternative

469
00:22:39,970 --> 00:22:37,009
treatments really say is this photo

470
00:22:41,830 --> 00:22:39,980
making the rounds real or hoax duffle

471
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:41,840
news is a unique website featuring news

472
00:22:46,029 --> 00:22:43,610
about pseudoscience the paranormal

473
00:22:48,039 --> 00:22:46,039
anomalies and questionable claims framed

474
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:48,049
with the skeptical view come visit

475
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:50,330
doubtful newscom every day for news

476
00:22:56,259 --> 00:22:53,330
about cryptozoology conspiracies shams

477
00:22:58,659 --> 00:22:56,269
scams and more follow us on twitter at

478
00:23:00,509 --> 00:22:58,669
doubtful news critical thinking is

479
00:23:03,129 --> 00:23:00,519
essential in assessing today's news

480
00:23:09,190 --> 00:23:03,139
duffel news helps you decide can you

481
00:23:12,340 --> 00:23:09,200
really believe this stuff good thinking

482
00:23:15,489 --> 00:23:12,350
society at good thinking society dot org

483
00:23:22,509 --> 00:23:15,499
here osteopaths claim to treat babies

484
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:22,519
for colic hello i'm wondering if he can

485
00:23:28,139 --> 00:23:25,730
help me and you tree baby so new yes we

486
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:28,149
do you would you be able to treat colic

487
00:23:34,810 --> 00:23:32,090
no yes definitely yes many osteo perhaps

488
00:23:37,779 --> 00:23:34,820
claim to treat colleague with cranial

489
00:23:40,180 --> 00:23:37,789
osteopathy a therapy with no evidence of

490
00:23:42,100 --> 00:23:40,190
effectiveness we decided to find out

491
00:23:45,279 --> 00:23:42,110
what an osteopath would tell the

492
00:23:47,169 --> 00:23:45,289
distressed parent seeking advice while

493
00:23:49,659 --> 00:23:47,179
this conversation has been edited for

494
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:49,669
length we have taken care to retain the

495
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:51,730
meaning and intent of the original

496
00:23:57,430 --> 00:23:54,410
discussion

497
00:23:59,920 --> 00:23:57,440
and what sort of age do you do you take

498
00:24:02,890 --> 00:23:59,930
the babies from or any annually from

499
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:02,900
preterm babies that are really just come

500
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:05,570
on suppose difference anything anyone

501
00:24:12,700 --> 00:24:09,290
right okay so so eight weeks isn't too

502
00:24:17,170 --> 00:24:12,710
young fan oh no no not at all no it was

503
00:24:19,900 --> 00:24:17,180
a quick verse no no I had a had a long

504
00:24:22,420 --> 00:24:19,910
labor and then ended up having a

505
00:24:24,130 --> 00:24:22,430
caesarean right well that's what it's

506
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:24,140
going to say and if babies one very

507
00:24:28,810 --> 00:24:26,210
quickly are cesarean honest enough on

508
00:24:30,310 --> 00:24:28,820
tues or forceps they can go into a kind

509
00:24:31,900 --> 00:24:30,320
of a shock because everything's happened

510
00:24:33,970 --> 00:24:31,910
so quickly one minute Lorraine next

511
00:24:35,350 --> 00:24:33,980
minute they're out and so they don't

512
00:24:38,140 --> 00:24:35,360
always get rid of those stresses and

513
00:24:40,570 --> 00:24:38,150
strains from what is normally traumatic

514
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:40,580
there if anybody but a quick burst with

515
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:42,050
the quick ones you can to get a lot

516
00:24:46,990 --> 00:24:45,410
around the diaphragm and so if it wasn't

517
00:24:52,090 --> 00:24:47,000
releasing you get lots of colors and

518
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:52,100
leaf look what use cranial osteopathy we

519
00:24:57,700 --> 00:24:54,170
asked Ed's at ernst professor of

520
00:25:00,250 --> 00:24:57,710
complementary medicine training

521
00:25:03,730 --> 00:25:00,260
osteopathy is an alternative treatments

522
00:25:07,390 --> 00:25:03,740
developed by an osteopath based on the

523
00:25:10,450 --> 00:25:07,400
assumption that the spinal fluid moves

524
00:25:13,990 --> 00:25:10,460
and influences our heads so the

525
00:25:17,020 --> 00:25:14,000
osteopath would apply gentle pressure to

526
00:25:20,950 --> 00:25:17,030
the skull under the assumption that he

527
00:25:24,730 --> 00:25:20,960
can move the bones of the skull he would

528
00:25:28,030 --> 00:25:24,740
treat conditions particularly for

529
00:25:31,930 --> 00:25:28,040
children and particularly colic infant

530
00:25:36,190 --> 00:25:31,940
colleague and the evidence that this

531
00:25:39,430 --> 00:25:36,200
works at all is nil the plausibility of

532
00:25:42,370 --> 00:25:39,440
the treatment is equal in you know and I

533
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:42,380
would say this is one of many bogus

534
00:25:46,870 --> 00:25:44,690
treatments we have a new tournaments

535
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:46,880
yeah we don't need a diagnosis what

536
00:25:50,860 --> 00:25:48,290
they'll do is to treat what they feel

537
00:25:53,500 --> 00:25:50,870
you know we do people at babies not

538
00:25:55,210 --> 00:25:53,510
children with autism and sometimes miss

539
00:25:56,650 --> 00:25:55,220
antenna diagnosis yet because he's not

540
00:25:59,620 --> 00:25:56,660
such and such a late it doesn't matter

541
00:26:02,380 --> 00:25:59,630
to us but they treat what they feel so

542
00:26:04,300 --> 00:26:02,390
coming out with autism as low on well if

543
00:26:05,970 --> 00:26:04,310
you kind it depends what's what's going

544
00:26:08,110 --> 00:26:05,980
on in the body because some some

545
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:08,120
children who are artists they aren't you

546
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:10,250
teenagers they can be like a coil spring

547
00:26:15,970 --> 00:26:14,090
and they can calm that down obviously

548
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:15,980
because you know the treat what what

549
00:26:19,270 --> 00:26:17,570
they can feel is after the alignments

550
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:19,280
are running the body we do get quite

551
00:26:23,140 --> 00:26:21,650
quite a few that do keep coming from

552
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:23,150
eighteen seventy six weeks every two

553
00:26:27,100 --> 00:26:24,650
months something like up there I just

554
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:27,110
find that it keeps them calm some of dis

555
00:26:32,110 --> 00:26:30,410
praxic if you if you into artists and

556
00:26:35,290 --> 00:26:32,120
then you know that this is a wide

557
00:26:38,830 --> 00:26:35,300
variation of symptoms so an older child

558
00:26:41,650 --> 00:26:38,840
who had attention problems or autogen

559
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:41,660
for heavier goblins would maybe maybe

560
00:26:46,780 --> 00:26:43,970
benefit can't can't say until Stetsons

561
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:46,790
are on them because they'll feel what

562
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:48,410
they can feel a tightness on a

563
00:26:54,340 --> 00:26:51,530
self-alignment but it can help it can

564
00:26:56,260 --> 00:26:54,350
help in a lot of people have you been on

565
00:26:58,750 --> 00:26:56,270
our website yeah well I've just been on

566
00:27:00,490 --> 00:26:58,760
the west side and I could see that but

567
00:27:02,770 --> 00:27:00,500
there's a section on babies and children

568
00:27:04,990 --> 00:27:02,780
yeah we did the thing is advertising

569
00:27:08,290 --> 00:27:05,000
restrictions don't let any therapist say

570
00:27:11,020 --> 00:27:08,300
that retreat anything like comic or you

571
00:27:13,690 --> 00:27:11,030
just what what is on everyone's website

572
00:27:15,850 --> 00:27:13,700
is the only thing people sunk so if you

573
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:15,860
look at the testimonials it gives you a

574
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:18,410
bit more idea there oh I don't know if

575
00:27:23,050 --> 00:27:21,050
I've sinned the testimony oxy the babies

576
00:27:24,910 --> 00:27:23,060
and children and it yeah it seems to be

577
00:27:26,980 --> 00:27:24,920
just describing exactly what it is like

578
00:27:30,250 --> 00:27:26,990
you know yes yeah but without saying

579
00:27:33,100 --> 00:27:30,260
colic yes can't say it can't even say

580
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:33,110
colicky pains well thanks very much for

581
00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:34,970
that and I really need more information

582
00:27:41,740 --> 00:27:37,130
you know just give me ring great great

583
00:27:44,430 --> 00:27:41,750
thank you okay then bye bye well as I

584
00:27:47,980 --> 00:27:44,440
think it's very surprising to hear that

585
00:27:50,500 --> 00:27:47,990
trending osteopath treat children very

586
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:50,510
young children even preterm children

587
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:54,650
that they pretend and claim to be able

588
00:28:00,970 --> 00:27:57,410
to treat effectively things like infant

589
00:28:05,050 --> 00:28:00,980
colic because there's simply no evidence

590
00:28:08,110 --> 00:28:05,060
for that and therefore the claims are

591
00:28:11,980 --> 00:28:08,120
bogus and to make bogus claims is

592
00:28:13,759 --> 00:28:11,990
unethical I think this is quite

593
00:28:17,909 --> 00:28:13,769
outrageous

594
00:28:19,979 --> 00:28:17,919
was this osteopath simply a bad apple we

595
00:28:22,830 --> 00:28:19,989
found four other osteopathic clinics

596
00:28:26,279 --> 00:28:22,840
willing to treat babies for colic within

597
00:28:29,070 --> 00:28:26,289
20 miles of the first clinic they're

598
00:28:34,430 --> 00:28:29,080
worth hello I'm wondering if he can help

599
00:28:37,859 --> 00:28:34,440
me and do you treat babies we do yes I

600
00:28:40,619 --> 00:28:37,869
was wondering this is osteopathy might

601
00:28:42,180 --> 00:28:40,629
be helpful Soren yes it does i mean i've

602
00:28:45,299 --> 00:28:42,190
treated quite a lot of babies over the

603
00:28:47,609 --> 00:28:45,309
years but i do know the lady osteopath

604
00:28:51,869 --> 00:28:47,619
who specializes in this kind of

605
00:28:53,999 --> 00:28:51,879
treatment the officer past year it's a

606
00:28:55,739 --> 00:28:54,009
grumpy baby colic specialist it does

607
00:28:58,489 --> 00:28:55,749
we've got is not citizen off the upper

608
00:29:01,139 --> 00:28:58,499
three brianne it definitely just faded

609
00:29:03,659 --> 00:29:01,149
yes we have got a lot babies with colic

610
00:29:06,060 --> 00:29:03,669
so and it is something that we can sort

611
00:29:08,940 --> 00:29:06,070
out so do you see them from quite a

612
00:29:13,950 --> 00:29:08,950
young age then yeah from about 2day

613
00:29:16,470 --> 00:29:13,960
dunwood claims the tree babies for colic

614
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:16,480
appear to be right in the osteopathy

615
00:29:20,820 --> 00:29:18,970
industry despite no evidence that such

616
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:20,830
treatment is anything the waste of time

617
00:29:27,659 --> 00:29:24,970
and money we have shared our findings

618
00:29:29,639 --> 00:29:27,669
with the general osteopathic council as

619
00:29:33,019 --> 00:29:29,649
part of formal complaints against the

620
00:29:36,149 --> 00:29:33,029
osteopath and spoke to investigators

621
00:29:40,470 --> 00:29:36,159
lara thompson and michael marshall with

622
00:29:45,419 --> 00:29:40,480
EDS at ernst editor mark entler music

623
00:29:49,109 --> 00:29:45,429
been sound wwn sound calm special thanks

624
00:29:51,419 --> 00:29:49,119
matt white to find out more about the

625
00:29:55,289 --> 00:29:51,429
good thinking society is it good

626
00:30:16,490 --> 00:29:55,299
thinking society org or at twitter at

627
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:20,580
dr. Harriet hall md no into thousands as

628
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:23,650
the skeptic a retired family physician

629
00:30:28,830 --> 00:30:26,770
and former Air Force flight surgeon she

630
00:30:30,530 --> 00:30:28,840
writes about medicine so called

631
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:30,540
complementary and alternative medicine

632
00:30:37,470 --> 00:30:34,410
science hi curry and critical thinking

633
00:30:39,930 --> 00:30:37,480
Harriet now has a free course a series

634
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:39,940
of ten video lectures on science based

635
00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:43,090
medicine and alternative medicine the

636
00:30:47,220 --> 00:30:45,130
videos and an accompanying course guide

637
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:47,230
can be found by following the link at

638
00:30:56,630 --> 00:30:52,090
skeptic info or by visiting web Randy's

639
00:31:00,440 --> 00:30:56,640
org slash educational dash modules dot

640
00:31:02,670 --> 00:31:00,450
HTML topics covered in the series are

641
00:31:05,810 --> 00:31:02,680
science-based medicine vs.

642
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:05,820
evidence-based medicine what is cam

643
00:31:12,390 --> 00:31:09,210
chiropractic acupuncture homeopathy

644
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:12,400
naturopathy and herbal medicine energy

645
00:31:17,700 --> 00:31:14,530
medicine miscellaneous alternatives

646
00:31:20,990 --> 00:31:17,710
pitfalls in research and science-based

647
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:21,000
medicine in the media and politics

648
00:31:26,310 --> 00:31:23,770
Harriet covers each topic in a matter of

649
00:31:53,820 --> 00:31:26,320
fact no-nonsense way that sure to

650
00:32:04,470 --> 00:31:58,870
as reported at ww skeptics conde you

651
00:32:07,750 --> 00:32:04,480
only 17th of februari 2016 by tim mendon

652
00:32:11,500 --> 00:32:07,760
anti-vaxxers chris savage offering quant

653
00:32:15,490 --> 00:32:11,510
medical & quot treatments for autism in

654
00:32:18,550 --> 00:32:15,500
bali chris savage noted anti-vaccination

655
00:32:20,890 --> 00:32:18,560
campaigner has set up operations in bali

656
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:20,900
offering intravenous magnesium

657
00:32:25,990 --> 00:32:23,930
injections to treat autism savage who

658
00:32:27,820 --> 00:32:26,000
prides himself on his 20-plus years

659
00:32:30,550 --> 00:32:27,830
experience as a police officer in

660
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:30,560
Queensland was previously warned by the

661
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:32,330
Queensland Department of Health to

662
00:32:38,380 --> 00:32:36,650
desist his medical activities he has no

663
00:32:41,230 --> 00:32:38,390
qualifications and a limited

664
00:32:43,450 --> 00:32:41,240
understanding of medical realities his

665
00:32:46,660 --> 00:32:43,460
constant references the vaccinations

666
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:46,670
quote sucking the life force and quote

667
00:32:50,950 --> 00:32:49,010
out of people including himself our

668
00:32:53,290 --> 00:32:50,960
indicative of his wayward and

669
00:32:55,810 --> 00:32:53,300
potentially dangerous approach on his

670
00:32:58,480 --> 00:32:55,820
YouTube page he has called for potential

671
00:33:00,570 --> 00:32:58,490
patients and especially parents to

672
00:33:02,290 --> 00:33:00,580
travel to Bali for his treatments

673
00:33:04,270 --> 00:33:02,300
Indonesian authorities have been

674
00:33:07,390 --> 00:33:04,280
notified of his presence in the country

675
00:33:09,420 --> 00:33:07,400
dr. Rachael heap an intensive care unit

676
00:33:13,060 --> 00:33:09,430
specialist in northern New South Wales

677
00:33:15,490 --> 00:33:13,070
says that quote intravenous magnesium is

678
00:33:17,980 --> 00:33:15,500
classified as one of the high-risk

679
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:17,990
medications that require extra

680
00:33:22,990 --> 00:33:20,570
precautions and policy directives for

681
00:33:26,470 --> 00:33:23,000
patient safety because of the potential

682
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:26,480
risks associated with its use it also

683
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:28,730
comes with a formulation that needs

684
00:33:34,150 --> 00:33:31,490
diluting and therefore without the

685
00:33:36,670 --> 00:33:34,160
skills and training required it can be

686
00:33:39,010 --> 00:33:36,680
easy to make an error and give the wrong

687
00:33:41,860 --> 00:33:39,020
dose you know hospital patients who need

688
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:41,870
intravenous magnesium are often looked

689
00:33:46,630 --> 00:33:44,090
after in the critical care setting

690
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:46,640
because it is recognized that its

691
00:33:52,060 --> 00:33:49,130
administration carries risk then there

692
00:33:53,740 --> 00:33:52,070
are these systemic effects magnesium can

693
00:33:56,230 --> 00:33:53,750
cause flushing and tachycardia

694
00:33:59,020 --> 00:33:56,240
hypertension loss of reflexes

695
00:34:00,760 --> 00:33:59,030
respiratory depression and in high

696
00:34:03,250 --> 00:34:00,770
enough doses could cause Brady

697
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:03,260
arrhythmias including complete heart

698
00:34:06,970 --> 00:34:03,850
block

699
00:34:08,830 --> 00:34:06,980
cardiovascular collapse and death it is

700
00:34:11,350 --> 00:34:08,840
particularly dangerous if you don't know

701
00:34:13,450 --> 00:34:11,360
what somebody's kidney function is like

702
00:34:15,720 --> 00:34:13,460
or if they are on a number of other

703
00:34:18,850 --> 00:34:15,730
drugs that could potentiate its effects

704
00:34:21,490 --> 00:34:18,860
Savage suggests an intravenous regime

705
00:34:24,430 --> 00:34:21,500
which makes me wonder what his training

706
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:24,440
and experience or qualifications to put

707
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:27,410
an intravenous cannula in our if not

708
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:29,810
deluded correctly magnesium can be a

709
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:33,290
local irritant on the veins also above

710
00:34:37,270 --> 00:34:35,210
and beyond the systemic side effects

711
00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:37,280
there is the fact that he is using it

712
00:34:41,860 --> 00:34:39,650
without qualifications to insert a line

713
00:34:44,050 --> 00:34:41,870
and I suspect without knowing the

714
00:34:47,140 --> 00:34:44,060
correct illusion to protect local

715
00:34:49,270 --> 00:34:47,150
tissues end quote savage is possibly

716
00:34:53,260 --> 00:34:49,280
best known to skeptics for his rambling

717
00:34:56,140 --> 00:34:53,270
diatribe at the no jab no pay no way

718
00:34:57,970 --> 00:34:56,150
protest in Brisbane last June in which

719
00:35:00,010 --> 00:34:57,980
he ran through a list of conspiracies

720
00:35:03,310 --> 00:35:00,020
including government infringement of

721
00:35:05,950 --> 00:35:03,320
Rights and what he and others claims was

722
00:35:09,820 --> 00:35:05,960
vaccination role in sudden infant death

723
00:35:13,300 --> 00:35:09,830
syndrome and accusations of quote shaken

724
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:13,310
baby and quote syndrome he regularly

725
00:35:18,610 --> 00:35:15,530
sites his police experience as some sort

726
00:35:20,770 --> 00:35:18,620
of imprimatur for his rants his list of

727
00:35:23,740 --> 00:35:20,780
paranoia's and conspiracies on his

728
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:23,750
Facebook site is extensive including the

729
00:35:29,590 --> 00:35:26,810
quote satanic vaccination industry and

730
00:35:31,530 --> 00:35:29,600
quote and vaccinations as quote bio

731
00:35:35,290 --> 00:35:31,540
weapons that were designed by a

732
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:35,300
bioweapons lab by a bio weapon scientist

733
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:37,490
from Nazi Germany the whole vaccine

734
00:35:42,430 --> 00:35:40,850
industry is satanic to the core babies

735
00:35:44,710 --> 00:35:42,440
are killed in the womb and their fetal

736
00:35:47,740 --> 00:35:44,720
tissue is sold to vaccine manufacturers

737
00:35:50,110 --> 00:35:47,750
and then blood money is paid to bribe

738
00:35:52,150 --> 00:35:50,120
the politicians who use coercion to

739
00:35:53,910 --> 00:35:52,160
force parents to allow their children to

740
00:35:57,370 --> 00:35:53,920
be attacked with these vaccines end

741
00:36:00,090 --> 00:35:57,380
quote he is also rabidly anti-jewish

742
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:00,100
claiming that they practice mind-control

743
00:36:06,340 --> 00:36:03,650
poisoned water to spread plague and that

744
00:36:09,010 --> 00:36:06,350
quote Jews are behind all major terror

745
00:36:11,860 --> 00:36:09,020
events in quote naturally he is a

746
00:36:13,540 --> 00:36:11,870
Holocaust denier he is a proponent of

747
00:36:16,410 --> 00:36:13,550
the abandoned highly dangerous black

748
00:36:19,140 --> 00:36:16,420
salv treatment of cancer

749
00:36:21,180 --> 00:36:19,150
the hate-filled demons of the media

750
00:36:23,370 --> 00:36:21,190
mafia are of course of opposed to

751
00:36:25,620 --> 00:36:23,380
untrained individuals burning off their

752
00:36:28,710 --> 00:36:25,630
flesh out of spite for evidence-based

753
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:28,720
treatment end quote and at the no jab

754
00:36:33,210 --> 00:36:31,570
protest he accused police of covering up

755
00:36:35,850 --> 00:36:33,220
what he claims are negative and

756
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:35,860
sometimes fatal outcomes of vaccination

757
00:36:40,500 --> 00:36:38,410
while at the same time praising police

758
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:40,510
as hard-working individuals his

759
00:36:45,210 --> 00:36:42,850
consistency is poor his medical

760
00:36:47,490 --> 00:36:45,220
qualifications non-existent and his

761
00:36:50,610 --> 00:36:47,500
supposed effective treatments have been

762
00:36:52,890 --> 00:36:50,620
described as dangerous we will report on

763
00:36:55,230 --> 00:36:52,900
the outcomes of any further action taken

764
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:55,240
by the Indonesian authorities more about

765
00:37:00,150 --> 00:36:57,090
Chris savage is available at the

766
00:37:03,330 --> 00:37:00,160
reasonable Hank blog and that was

767
00:37:05,730 --> 00:37:03,340
published at ww skeptics calm not a you

768
00:37:08,570 --> 00:37:05,740
by Tim mendham on the seventeenth of

769
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:08,580
February since that story was published

770
00:37:14,970 --> 00:37:11,770
Chris Savage has left barley and this

771
00:37:18,450 --> 00:37:14,980
story appeared at nine news.com dot a

772
00:37:21,720 --> 00:37:18,460
you on the second of March ex Australian

773
00:37:23,970 --> 00:37:21,730
cop flees barley amid claims he offered

774
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:23,980
to cure autism but had no medical

775
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:26,770
training a former Queensland police

776
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:28,930
officer has left barley admit

777
00:37:33,030 --> 00:37:31,090
allegations he was offering to cure

778
00:37:35,330 --> 00:37:33,040
children of autism and other diseases

779
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:35,340
despite having no medical training

780
00:37:39,630 --> 00:37:37,810
christopher william savage returned to

781
00:37:42,540 --> 00:37:39,640
amma more in the sunshine coast

782
00:37:44,460 --> 00:37:42,550
hinterland after indonesian medical

783
00:37:47,100 --> 00:37:44,470
authorities began investigating his

784
00:37:49,620 --> 00:37:47,110
activities last week News Corp Australia

785
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:49,630
reports the and evac scam paner and

786
00:37:54,540 --> 00:37:52,210
former One Nation candidate is accused

787
00:38:00,000 --> 00:37:54,550
of providing intravenous infusions of

788
00:38:02,070 --> 00:38:00,010
magnesium and dimethylsulfoxide DMSO for

789
00:38:05,220 --> 00:38:02,080
children with autism people with blocked

790
00:38:07,500 --> 00:38:05,230
or calcified arteries and I auto cancer

791
00:38:10,350 --> 00:38:07,510
and other ailments at the barley clinic

792
00:38:12,090 --> 00:38:10,360
or in people's hotel rooms Indonesian

793
00:38:14,220 --> 00:38:12,100
authorities have threatened that if mr.

794
00:38:16,410 --> 00:38:14,230
savage returns he will be investigated

795
00:38:18,930 --> 00:38:16,420
for allegedly breaching health law's and

796
00:38:21,930 --> 00:38:18,940
could face jail and be banned from

797
00:38:24,390 --> 00:38:21,940
re-entering the country mr. Savage has

798
00:38:27,300 --> 00:38:24,400
denied conducting the procedures saying

799
00:38:29,910 --> 00:38:27,310
that he quote oversaw and quote the

800
00:38:32,490 --> 00:38:29,920
treatments by people with a special

801
00:38:34,620 --> 00:38:32,500
who he would not identify the ex police

802
00:38:37,380 --> 00:38:34,630
officer said he was conducting a

803
00:38:40,020 --> 00:38:37,390
business feasibility study in Bali and

804
00:38:43,349 --> 00:38:40,030
he was forced to abandoned due to a

805
00:38:46,829 --> 00:38:43,359
campaign of lies orchestrated by the

806
00:38:50,010 --> 00:38:46,839
Australian skeptics group quote no one

807
00:38:52,289 --> 00:38:50,020
got hurt certainly no one died or were

808
00:38:54,839 --> 00:38:52,299
exceedingly happy but of course the way

809
00:38:57,420 --> 00:38:54,849
the world is they don't want to know how

810
00:39:00,510 --> 00:38:57,430
to heal people and quote mr. savage said

811
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:00,520
quote I wasn't doing medical procedures

812
00:39:05,250 --> 00:39:02,410
all the medical procedures were being

813
00:39:07,230 --> 00:39:05,260
done by people that were qualified and I

814
00:39:09,900 --> 00:39:07,240
was giving advice to these medically

815
00:39:12,390 --> 00:39:09,910
qualified people and quote he said mr.

816
00:39:14,339 --> 00:39:12,400
Savage reportedly arrived in Bali in

817
00:39:17,579 --> 00:39:14,349
August last year and began offering

818
00:39:19,950 --> 00:39:17,589
infusions of magnesium chloride and DMSO

819
00:39:22,740 --> 00:39:19,960
in a series of videos that have since

820
00:39:26,130 --> 00:39:22,750
been removed from YouTube he says that

821
00:39:29,789 --> 00:39:26,140
up to 16 IV bags of the substance which

822
00:39:32,609 --> 00:39:29,799
cost 150 dollars per bag could be needed

823
00:39:34,230 --> 00:39:32,619
to cure disease mr. savage claims the

824
00:39:36,780 --> 00:39:34,240
treatment can only be offered in Bali

825
00:39:40,140 --> 00:39:36,790
because pharmaceutical companies in the

826
00:39:42,630 --> 00:39:40,150
West quote including Australia has been

827
00:39:45,839 --> 00:39:42,640
hijacked by criminal corporations and

828
00:39:48,299 --> 00:39:45,849
their minions in quote medical

829
00:39:51,500 --> 00:39:48,309
practitioners have said that there is no

830
00:39:54,390 --> 00:39:51,510
known situation in which both DMSO and

831
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:54,400
magnesium chloride would be administered

832
00:39:59,039 --> 00:39:56,170
to a patient simultaneously or

833
00:40:03,150 --> 00:39:59,049
intravenously and that story comes from

834
00:40:05,319 --> 00:40:03,160
nine News calm day you published on the

835
00:40:08,859 --> 00:40:05,329
second of March

836
00:40:08,869 --> 00:40:16,720
you

837
00:40:25,100 --> 00:40:21,620
hey Heidi oh hi Joe hi Heidi oh hi

838
00:40:28,340 --> 00:40:25,110
Maynard hi Maynard oh hi Joe nice day in

839
00:40:32,180 --> 00:40:28,350
this park yeah yes great weather oh look

840
00:40:35,359 --> 00:40:32,190
a unicorn a unicorn there are no such

841
00:40:37,970 --> 00:40:35,369
things as unicorn silly yes there are no

842
00:40:40,460 --> 00:40:37,980
there isn't hey ladies what are you

843
00:40:43,910 --> 00:40:40,470
arguing about Jay thinks unicorns are

844
00:40:47,420 --> 00:40:43,920
real they fo are let's look this up in

845
00:40:49,700 --> 00:40:47,430
the skeptics dictionary the word how can

846
00:40:52,010 --> 00:40:49,710
we do that in this park there are no

847
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:52,020
computers here you ladies probably don't

848
00:40:57,410 --> 00:40:54,330
know about the skeptics dictionary app

849
00:41:00,560 --> 00:40:57,420
available now for iPhone iPad and iPod

850
00:41:02,510 --> 00:41:00,570
touch in the App Store yeah we do we've

851
00:41:06,740 --> 00:41:02,520
been listening to the skeptic zone for

852
00:41:09,050 --> 00:41:06,750
years you know yes ok the app lets you

853
00:41:12,770 --> 00:41:09,060
access all the great skeptics dictionary

854
00:41:15,620 --> 00:41:12,780
articles when you're on the go yeah let

855
00:41:18,530 --> 00:41:15,630
me look up unicorns oh cool Heidi

856
00:41:21,020 --> 00:41:18,540
prepare to be proven wrong it says here

857
00:41:24,349 --> 00:41:21,030
the Unicorn is a creature from fables

858
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:24,359
aha actually I see now that someone just

859
00:41:28,609 --> 00:41:25,890
dumped their ice cream cone on that

860
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:28,619
horse's head thanks skeptic dictionary

861
00:41:37,930 --> 00:41:30,930
iPhone app that's just some guy in his

862
00:41:42,230 --> 00:41:40,609
and now for a bit of silly fun at the

863
00:41:45,410 --> 00:41:42,240
end of the skeptic zone join us at

864
00:41:48,349 --> 00:41:45,420
Sydney skeptics in the pub where I speak

865
00:41:50,390 --> 00:41:48,359
to Trish Han and Peter bowditch about a

866
00:41:59,510 --> 00:41:50,400
little magazine i found a little flyer

867
00:42:01,960 --> 00:41:59,520
promoting chemical free products at

868
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:01,970
skeptics in the pub here in sydney and

869
00:42:06,079 --> 00:42:04,410
we're just perusing a magazine i

870
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:06,089
collected on the way here Trish is

871
00:42:09,380 --> 00:42:07,770
having it having a look at it now what

872
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:09,390
let's have a look at the cover this

873
00:42:14,990 --> 00:42:12,450
magazine Trish it says um healthy

874
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:15,000
choices for a healthy life March 2016

875
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:19,490
options for gluten dairy sugar pain

876
00:42:28,430 --> 00:42:23,970
chemical free choices Trish yeah I

877
00:42:30,410 --> 00:42:28,440
haven't eaten in 32 years it's

878
00:42:32,780 --> 00:42:30,420
absolutely hilarious the things in here

879
00:42:34,070 --> 00:42:32,790
they they particularly hate parabens

880
00:42:37,460 --> 00:42:34,080
from a look of things because I guess

881
00:42:40,579 --> 00:42:37,470
it's paraben is a scary word I'm quaking

882
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:40,589
in my boots when I hear about it so many

883
00:42:44,060 --> 00:42:42,690
sinha boy so many syllables right back

884
00:42:45,950 --> 00:42:44,070
below Rita thank you for your

885
00:42:47,420 --> 00:42:45,960
contribution on last week's show and I

886
00:42:50,240 --> 00:42:47,430
saw you were glancing at this chemical

887
00:42:51,740 --> 00:42:50,250
free magazine yes I just knows in the

888
00:42:54,109 --> 00:42:51,750
front I was a bit confused when it said

889
00:42:55,339 --> 00:42:54,119
that it was gluten dairy she'll got pain

890
00:42:57,260 --> 00:42:55,349
and chemical for Raylan what about the

891
00:42:58,400 --> 00:42:57,270
pain but I figure what it is that in

892
00:43:01,250 --> 00:42:58,410
fact of course is the French word for

893
00:43:02,900 --> 00:43:01,260
bread so they've reproduced the gluten

894
00:43:05,329 --> 00:43:02,910
free by saying the even French people

895
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:05,339
French bread is no good for you but I'm

896
00:43:07,790 --> 00:43:06,690
impressed with chemical free stuff

897
00:43:10,050 --> 00:43:07,800
inside but you know you can get

898
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:10,060
chemical-free salt

899
00:43:15,060 --> 00:43:12,610
I always use chemical free so you're

900
00:43:16,620 --> 00:43:15,070
probably the same yourself now 10 isn't

901
00:43:19,230 --> 00:43:16,630
it says here that parabens are bad for

902
00:43:20,790 --> 00:43:19,240
you parabens has packed the portuguese

903
00:43:23,940 --> 00:43:20,800
word that means nothing like whatsoever

904
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:23,950
and i found it on some packet of

905
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:25,810
something that i bought that turns out

906
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:27,490
with multi had different different

907
00:43:32,490 --> 00:43:29,650
labels for different languages and one

908
00:43:33,570 --> 00:43:32,500
of those libel parabens look it's a

909
00:43:34,590 --> 00:43:33,580
foreign language they're hiding

910
00:43:39,150 --> 00:43:34,600
something from me i won't look at that

911
00:43:40,770 --> 00:43:39,160
but it means something like no sugar but

912
00:43:43,890 --> 00:43:40,780
i'm fascinated by this chemical free

913
00:43:45,990 --> 00:43:43,900
food the magazine has a whole list of

914
00:43:49,020 --> 00:43:46,000
products and ranges but use this whole

915
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:49,030
term is chemical free because you see it

916
00:43:52,590 --> 00:43:50,770
again and again in the new age industry

917
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:52,600
don't you you must have spotted this in

918
00:43:58,440 --> 00:43:56,010
your illustrious urgh investigations um

919
00:44:01,410 --> 00:43:58,450
I'm one of these people that generally

920
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:01,420
avoids all this kind of that the beauty

921
00:44:04,530 --> 00:44:03,010
industry is particularly bad for as a

922
00:44:06,060 --> 00:44:04,540
health industry I cannot stand it but

923
00:44:07,650 --> 00:44:06,070
one thing I find quite funny is that

924
00:44:09,900 --> 00:44:07,660
people that I know her into Liz

925
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:09,910
crossfitting the stuff they go in for

926
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:11,530
all this as well and it's like the Paleo

927
00:44:15,930 --> 00:44:13,810
diet and gluten free and all this kind

928
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:15,940
of thing and personally I think it's

929
00:44:20,070 --> 00:44:18,490
quite damaging because gluten free

930
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:20,080
especially seems to really take it off

931
00:44:23,460 --> 00:44:22,090
and on the one hand it's great because

932
00:44:25,500 --> 00:44:23,470
it means people we've actually got

933
00:44:26,610 --> 00:44:25,510
things like celiac can go to all these

934
00:44:29,010 --> 00:44:26,620
restaurants now they can go to you

935
00:44:30,660 --> 00:44:29,020
before but also if these people if these

936
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:30,670
restaurants just pandering to the whole

937
00:44:34,730 --> 00:44:33,010
gluten-free fad how do we know they're

938
00:44:37,050 --> 00:44:34,740
actually really going to the effort of

939
00:44:39,810 --> 00:44:37,060
avoiding putting glutenin things maybe

940
00:44:42,210 --> 00:44:39,820
that's a really good point I mean you

941
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:42,220
goodbye your gluten-free XYZ pizza or

942
00:44:45,690 --> 00:44:43,690
whatever and it could be chocolate full

943
00:44:47,310 --> 00:44:45,700
of gluten well even if it's not got

944
00:44:48,540 --> 00:44:47,320
gluten in it if it's been reverted and

945
00:44:50,100 --> 00:44:48,550
have been prepared in a glutton

946
00:44:51,450 --> 00:44:50,110
environment then obviously there are

947
00:44:53,070 --> 00:44:51,460
people who are so sensitive to gluten

948
00:44:54,720 --> 00:44:53,080
like genuinely sensitive to gluten that

949
00:44:56,220 --> 00:44:54,730
they could end up hospitalized just from

950
00:44:57,990 --> 00:44:56,230
poor preparation so this kind of stuff

951
00:44:59,250 --> 00:44:58,000
is actually it's funny but it's also

952
00:45:01,140 --> 00:44:59,260
really damaging and that's one thing

953
00:45:05,220 --> 00:45:01,150
that worries me

954
00:45:08,069 --> 00:45:05,230
I know I actually suffer from medically

955
00:45:11,519 --> 00:45:08,079
diagnosed no diagnosed food ingredient

956
00:45:12,990 --> 00:45:11,529
intolerance I read labels on the back of

957
00:45:14,819 --> 00:45:13,000
food to tell me whether it's got this

958
00:45:16,789 --> 00:45:14,829
stuff in it and if it's there I don't

959
00:45:18,809 --> 00:45:16,799
eat the stuff right only too much of it

960
00:45:20,430 --> 00:45:18,819
I'm actually impressed with a chemical

961
00:45:23,309 --> 00:45:20,440
free diet maybe love with the ultimate

962
00:45:25,019 --> 00:45:23,319
slimming diet this would be better than

963
00:45:26,670 --> 00:45:25,029
Michelle's whatever it is 12-week thing

964
00:45:30,109 --> 00:45:26,680
that I saw on TV last night some woman

965
00:45:33,089 --> 00:45:30,119
lost thirty four kilograms in 12 weeks

966
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:33,099
no she didn't if she did she needs to

967
00:45:35,900 --> 00:45:33,970
talk to either a doctor or a

968
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:35,910
psychiatrist or she had a leg cut off

969
00:45:41,099 --> 00:45:38,970
but I think that no chemical free diet

970
00:45:42,660 --> 00:45:41,109
would be perfect for weight loss I

971
00:45:45,390 --> 00:45:42,670
reckon that are about three work she'd

972
00:45:47,279 --> 00:45:45,400
whale lot less I've had four weeks well

973
00:45:50,279 --> 00:45:47,289
you know and and then of course a few

974
00:45:51,210 --> 00:45:50,289
promoted your waiver my chemical free

975
00:45:54,839 --> 00:45:51,220
foods I think they're quite expensive

976
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:54,849
actually it's it's a huge process to

977
00:46:00,960 --> 00:45:56,170
take all the chemicals out of food

978
00:46:03,839 --> 00:46:00,970
especially water too I think chemical

979
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:03,849
free water Warners deadly you've only

980
00:46:09,420 --> 00:46:05,170
got to breathe a little bit of it you

981
00:46:12,690 --> 00:46:09,430
die I mean actually burnt myself with a

982
00:46:14,130 --> 00:46:12,700
gaseous form of water I put my reach

983
00:46:16,620 --> 00:46:14,140
across the kettle to get to something

984
00:46:18,779 --> 00:46:16,630
and I got this great big burn on my arm

985
00:46:21,240 --> 00:46:18,789
it was really bad and that was from

986
00:46:23,670 --> 00:46:21,250
water I can be gone well on that on that

987
00:46:25,799 --> 00:46:23,680
relative note in the UK and others of

988
00:46:27,839 --> 00:46:25,809
you know called in cold climates the

989
00:46:29,819 --> 00:46:27,849
solid form of water can fill an A&E

990
00:46:32,010 --> 00:46:29,829
department you know patients just

991
00:46:33,870 --> 00:46:32,020
absolutely floored by it literally

992
00:46:36,599 --> 00:46:33,880
floored by the solid form of water and

993
00:46:40,470 --> 00:46:36,609
this stuff is legal lean on me what the

994
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:40,480
hell I mean my heart my whole town was

995
00:46:44,279 --> 00:46:41,770
cut off from the rest of the world by

996
00:46:45,900 --> 00:46:44,289
two days last year because we had 20

997
00:46:47,910 --> 00:46:45,910
centimeters of frozen water sitting all

998
00:46:51,030 --> 00:46:47,920
over the yard

999
00:46:52,770 --> 00:46:51,040
I think we've here skeptics of we've

1000
00:46:55,740 --> 00:46:52,780
stumbled across of aging each other so

1001
00:47:10,500 --> 00:46:55,750
Roy they don't have to ride one please

1002
00:47:12,540 --> 00:47:10,510
do you did rush go garbled radio a

1003
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:12,550
skeptic wish to shock a desolate it's a

1004
00:47:16,830 --> 00:47:14,290
skeptic we sell visit a chiro Python

1005
00:47:18,870 --> 00:47:16,840
hashanah Garnica meet the skeptics on

1006
00:47:20,310 --> 00:47:18,880
podcast or go to a visionary page from

1007
00:47:21,900 --> 00:47:20,320
touch metropolis add to the manual

1008
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:21,910
control to share alike what she touched

1009
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:24,010
a critical go indoor garage dish or not

1010
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:27,010
need sedation I said it merely is 20 and

1011
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:28,450
then we can shake member travelhob

1012
00:47:33,270 --> 00:47:30,850
gelato or dvd born skeptic who starts a

1013
00:47:35,820 --> 00:47:33,280
shark 1 2 which is info @ skeptic push

1014
00:47:37,470 --> 00:47:35,830
bond Hootie man to buy by Allen film at

1015
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:37,480
the Facebook hold on cottage Amita

1016
00:47:42,210 --> 00:47:40,090
facebook bancomer skeptical star Shakti

1017
00:47:47,100 --> 00:47:42,220
Mentalist volim inquiring Cerreta

1018
00:47:48,870 --> 00:47:47,110
dharamdas van Halen hi this is garba

1019
00:47:50,850 --> 00:47:48,880
raas co-president of the Hungarian

1020
00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:50,860
skeptics society and chairman of the

1021
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:52,210
European Council of skeptical

1022
00:47:57,420 --> 00:47:55,090
organizations a solicitor of the skeptic

1023
00:47:59,400 --> 00:47:57,430
zone you probably agree that educating

1024
00:48:02,430 --> 00:47:59,410
others about pseudoscience and critical

1025
00:48:04,020 --> 00:48:02,440
thinking is an important task if you are

1026
00:48:05,850 --> 00:48:04,030
eager to take part in either of these

1027
00:48:09,590 --> 00:48:05,860
activities we would be happy to hear

1028
00:48:15,270 --> 00:48:09,600
from you don't hesitate to contact us at

1029
00:48:17,190 --> 00:48:15,280
www.adr.org at skeptical hu we also

1030
00:48:20,010 --> 00:48:17,200
recommend you visiting our Facebook page

1031
00:48:37,650 --> 00:48:20,020
skeptic which tire shop or simply come

1032
00:48:42,039 --> 00:48:40,089
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1033
00:48:44,650 --> 00:48:42,049
zone and Thank You Heidi Robinson very

1034
00:48:47,170 --> 00:48:44,660
much for that really insightful and

1035
00:48:50,109 --> 00:48:47,180
moving report about the horrors of

1036
00:48:54,010 --> 00:48:50,119
chicken pox yes chicken pox isn't just

1037
00:48:57,039 --> 00:48:54,020
some benign silly little childhood

1038
00:48:59,950 --> 00:48:57,049
disease at all it's a horror and it does

1039
00:49:02,980 --> 00:48:59,960
take lives every year and we look

1040
00:49:05,500 --> 00:49:02,990
forward to the next report from Heidi

1041
00:49:07,930 --> 00:49:05,510
don't forget to visit the website of our

1042
00:49:11,470 --> 00:49:07,940
reporter Maynard Maynard calm today you

1043
00:49:13,240 --> 00:49:11,480
for his podcast bunga bunga he does with

1044
00:49:15,220 --> 00:49:13,250
Tim Ferguson from the dog Anthony All

1045
00:49:18,789 --> 00:49:15,230
Stars and not so but the main art

1046
00:49:20,589 --> 00:49:18,799
craziness oh yes now to mention the the

1047
00:49:24,010 --> 00:49:20,599
dinner meeting here in Sydney on the 9th

1048
00:49:26,049 --> 00:49:24,020
of april 9th of april sydney skeptics

1049
00:49:30,190 --> 00:49:26,059
dinner meeting how the creationism

1050
00:49:32,770 --> 00:49:30,200
movement is evolving now you can get

1051
00:49:36,430 --> 00:49:32,780
tickets to this meeting by visiting w WC

1052
00:49:40,150 --> 00:49:36,440
optics com au and clicking the shop link

1053
00:49:41,859 --> 00:49:40,160
is creationism dead in Australia far

1054
00:49:43,720 --> 00:49:41,869
from it in fact some say that the

1055
00:49:46,420 --> 00:49:43,730
teaching of creationism in science

1056
00:49:49,329 --> 00:49:46,430
classes has become more prevalent now

1057
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:49,339
this will be a talk by dr. Nick matzke a

1058
00:49:53,740 --> 00:49:52,010
postdoctoral scientist at the Australian

1059
00:49:56,589 --> 00:49:53,750
National University working in

1060
00:49:59,260 --> 00:49:56,599
evolutionary biology he was involved in

1061
00:50:02,289 --> 00:49:59,270
the famous us kitzmiller vs. Dover trial

1062
00:50:06,430 --> 00:50:02,299
in 2005 and Nick will show how the

1063
00:50:08,500 --> 00:50:06,440
anti-evolution movement is evolving to

1064
00:50:11,769 --> 00:50:08,510
spread its message that's at the ride

1065
00:50:14,799 --> 00:50:11,779
eastwood Leagues Club riedel road west

1066
00:50:17,769 --> 00:50:14,809
ride and that's at six thirty for more

1067
00:50:20,260 --> 00:50:17,779
information just visit www skeptics

1068
00:50:22,240 --> 00:50:20,270
comdata you and we hope to see you there

1069
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:22,250
strain skeptics dinner meetings always

1070
00:50:27,309 --> 00:50:24,890
worth attending also worth attending our

1071
00:50:30,370 --> 00:50:27,319
Australian skeptics national conventions

1072
00:50:33,099 --> 00:50:30,380
and this year it will be held in in

1073
00:50:35,589 --> 00:50:33,109
November in Melbourne more about that in

1074
00:50:37,180 --> 00:50:35,599
the coming months I'm sure and thank you

1075
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:37,190
to those people who subscribe to the

1076
00:50:43,539 --> 00:50:39,170
skeptics own less than a dollar a week

1077
00:50:45,670 --> 00:50:43,549
you can do that at skeptic zone TV via

1078
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:45,680
paypal and wow does that really help

1079
00:50:52,370 --> 00:50:48,210
keep the show in production

1080
00:50:53,540 --> 00:50:52,380
and hopefully in your ears no matter

1081
00:50:56,390 --> 00:50:53,550
where you are in the world no matter

1082
00:50:58,930 --> 00:50:56,400
what you're doing if you are you're

1083
00:51:02,930 --> 00:50:58,940
listening to me in your headphones now

1084
00:51:04,730 --> 00:51:02,940
mowing the lawn walking the dog you'll

1085
00:51:07,970 --> 00:51:04,740
probably hit the gym or maybe you're

1086
00:51:11,270 --> 00:51:07,980
commuting on the bus or the train nor

1087
00:51:13,670 --> 00:51:11,280
the ferry or the submarine or the light

1088
00:51:14,930 --> 00:51:13,680
aircraft what else could you be doing

1089
00:51:16,849 --> 00:51:14,940
you're probably doing housework

1090
00:51:20,660 --> 00:51:16,859
listening to me right now mopping the

1091
00:51:24,910 --> 00:51:20,670
floor vacuuming that I say walking the

1092
00:51:28,790 --> 00:51:24,920
dog walking the cat walking the budgie

1093
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:28,800
having a swim no special waterproof hmm

1094
00:51:34,010 --> 00:51:32,010
whatever you're doing I hope you enjoy

1095
00:51:36,220 --> 00:51:34,020
the skeptic zone and I hope we manage to

1096
00:51:38,930 --> 00:51:36,230
keep you company and keep you informed

1097
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:38,940
but for this week this is Richard

1098
00:51:47,630 --> 00:51:41,010
Saunders signing off from Sydney

1099
00:51:49,670 --> 00:51:47,640
Australia you've been listening to the

1100
00:51:53,210 --> 00:51:49,680
skeptics own podcast because of our

1101
00:51:55,460 --> 00:51:53,220
website at wwc a petting zoo TV for

1102
00:51:59,839 --> 00:51:55,470
contacts and archive of all episodes

1103
00:52:02,000 --> 00:51:59,849
since 2008 and our online store please

1104
00:52:05,300 --> 00:52:02,010
support the skeptic zone by following us

1105
00:52:08,290 --> 00:52:05,310
on twitter at skeptic zone liking us on

1106
00:52:10,670 --> 00:52:08,300
facebook and leaving a review on iTunes

1107
00:52:13,339 --> 00:52:10,680
you can also show your support by

1108
00:52:17,089 --> 00:52:13,349
subscribing via paypal for as little as

1109
00:52:19,130 --> 00:52:17,099
99 cents a week the skeptic zone is an

1110
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:19,140
independent production the views and

1111
00:52:23,420 --> 00:52:21,210
opinions expressed on the skeptic zone

1112
00:52:26,300 --> 00:52:23,430
and not necessarily those of Australian

1113
00:52:27,940 --> 00:52:26,310
skeptically or any other skeptical